What Army do Never Trumpers bring?

Well, going forward, here is the blueprint for how grownups debate. How, on social media or in real life, reasonable adults who accept science, evidence, facts, and logic can have a disagreement and discuss it. Bob Cesca has a Wednesday interview show that is available on his Patreon page that is free to the public. The idea is that you will go to the Patreon page, enjoy the free content, and be moved to kick him a few dollars to help continue producing content. A great concept, this is the good side of DIY political media and we should all consider spending a little bit here and there to support independent media. And for almost the exact reason for the debate here; because mainstream corporate media is not up to the task of defending democracy and in many ways is responsible for the horrid political climate that lets republicans skate away scott free from every disaster they cause and then put them on television to cover it up and call liberals traitors, etc.

Bob had Driftglass and Blue Gal on this week. They have had a low intensity disagreement for months now over the subject of Never Trump republican conservatives. I'll give you three guesses who's side I'm on and the first two don't count. It has annoyed me to ever higher levels that Bob has taken the position that some grand coalition of liberals and never trumpers will come together to rescue democracy and get rid of #doughfacedonnny. Driftglass has intermittently called Bob out for the, God Chez Pazienza would hate me using this word, problematic nature of throwing in with never trumpers. I don't want to tear down Bob, his heart is in the right place, heck I even tried this argument before the election. "This time, just this time" don't vote republican for president, #doughfacedonny is fundamentally unfit for office in every sense of the word is what I tried to convey. But too many credulous liberals are retweeting Bill Kristol, Rick Wilson, Steve Schmidt, and others as though they have awoken from the multiple decades of leadership in conservative intellectual and political circles to see the error of their ways. This has to stop, these people are not your friends.

Bob clings to liberal optimistic hope that things might be, could be different this time. Hope is inherently about the future, and the future is not set. Sure it's possible that this coalition could arise, but is it likely? Is it worth the price liberals would pay by embracing people who were calling them anti-American traitors two years ago? I used to write about Bob and Chez as being akin to the subjects of my MA thesis, Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. and Reinhold Niebuhr. Like them, Niebuhr died earlier than Schlesinger and it is possible that the latter would have thought and wrote in different ways if the former had lived longer. Chez was a healthy voice of skepticism in the more gregarious Bob's ear and while Bob has new co-hosts who exercise some influence on him, he doesn't have that same grounding he once had before Chez died. This is the first time in a while that DG & BG have been on Bob's show and it isn't a seamless transition because they were guests on his interview show, not co-hosts with equal weight to drive the discussion. But DG & BG did present that counterargument that has been lacking on Bob's show.

I'm not finished listening to the debate. Just wanted to get something down about the show itself. The point being that this is how adults argue. This is how sensible people can disagree on something but still be on speaking terms. It's a good demonstration of what we can do if we remember that that disembodied text commenting on something you post, or a news story on a public forum is also a human being. As for the title of this post, it was something that Driftglass said about the coalition with never trumpers. The US allied with Stalin during WWII because the Soviet Union had the Red Army and was a huge asset in fighting the common foe. What do never trumpers bring? Votes, where? The death star plans to unravel their propaganda machine and deprogram all the meatheads? Even some small assurance that we won't go back to defending against grand bargains and how much to cut Social Security again once #doughfacedonny is behind bars, as Blue Gal added. The votes from these people are a rounding error, and they are simply taking opposition seats on tv news that should go to actual liberals who have been fighting trump and the fascism he represents (and republicans embody) since the beginning.